First, a great thank you to LaDonna for having the opportunity to read your writing. It's all so beautiful, the writing, the ideas, the metaphors, all! Second, I'm sharing two thoughts. 1. Being portuguese (and speaking Portuguese - of course -, and English, and French; being B1 in German, Italian and Spanish, and loving languages in general) I do resent a bit when people say quite "naturally", and without thinking: "Portuguese is a terribly difficult language to learn", just because I compare. I can't help it. I compare things to enable reflection on them. Even from the English point of view, I can't help thinking about Polish, Hungarian, Finnish, Danish, etc., not even considering oriental languages, that have completely different grammatical structures and concepts. Language is an essential component of culture. The foreigner's "bubble thing" is real. And the turning tables image is very, very real. Only through the force of numbers a foreigner gets help in your (foreign) language - see Spanish in the USA, or English in the Algarve, South of France, etc. Imagine me moving to Greece, without basic English or French. Imagine me moving to the UK... This leads me to the "immersion thing", but in the (real, common) rough way: You're not an expat with financial means. You can not choose fancy neighborhoods to live in. You struggle to move to point A to point B. You HAVE to work (and you can not choose the job you've learned, but just accept the jobs you get - that don't imply talking to natives), you have to swim in the muddy, thick waters of bureaucracy, and when you're ill, you're unable to explain where it hurts, what you really feel! At first you can not communicate, you're alone. But you made a life choice and you need to make it work. So you learn the language the hard way. BUT you learn. You'll never be fluent like a native, you'll never lose your accent. You'll just get more aware that the more you know the more you find there is to learn. Sooooo... I must be sensible with my statements and my comparisons, reflection and empathy are a must. 2. The speakers of a foreign language who speak your own have a huge advantage. They "know" two systems, and they can navigate in different grammars and concepts. In the end, foreigners that struggle/want to learn are admired and respected, even when they fail, even when they make mistakes. Those who despise the learning part (there are such people, unfortunately, that gave up or just decided that they don't have/need to) lose a great learning/cultural opportunity that enriches us as people.
Once again, thanks for your insightful writing. I chuckled at your opening line, I have practiced the exact phrase myself and used it less than 10 times while traveling in Portugal mainly for the same reasons. My best Portuguese is much worse than most Portuguese peoples English so I default back to English. I am moving in May and have feverishly been trying to learn enough to have a basic conversation. I took Latin in highschool which isn’t a spoken language so I am learning my first new language now as a retired person. But here is the rub. I grew up in the 60’s where being foreign was not cool. My father is from Czechoslovakia and spoke 4 languages fluently, my mother is first generation with her father from Greece and she spoke 3 languages. So in my home I could have learned my choice of 7 languages but learned none of them. I am absolutely not going to default to English and I will keep apologizing before I butcher my next sentence in Portuguese but it is so important to me.
Great writing as usual! You aptly described a regular topic of conversation in our house ;-) Julie is fluent (and she is a polyglot who speaks several languages), I on the other hand struggle daily (because I am a monoglot) and have been in a PLA course that I love since Sept. and still struggle with studying every day ;-( It's SO hard when you brain isn't wired that way! But the look on my neighbors and friends faces when I try my best to converse in Portuguese makes it worthwhile!!!
I have asked our mailman (who speaks English) to speak to me in Portuguese and several other folks I see often. They are great about it! Everyone wants to help, I love that ;-) Stay with it, slow and steady wins the race for us monoglots, right?
Embarking on the journey of learning Portuguese has been like trying to salsa dance with two left feet—awkward, a bit embarrassing, but utterly exhilarating. Every misstep in pronunciation feels like a tiny rebellion against my monolingual comfort zone. It's like my tongue is on an adventure, exploring uncharted territories, only to occasionally stumble over a linguistic root. And let's not forget the moments of unexpected kindness when locals switch to English, offering a linguistic lifeline as I'm about to drown in my own sentence structure. It's a humbling reminder that while I'm here trying to untangle my 'obrigados' from my 'por favors,' I'm also navigating the vast ocean of cultural exchange—one garbled word at a time. Here's to the beauty of linguistic mishaps and the universal patience of everyone who's ever had to decipher my earnest, yet baffling, attempts at Portuguese. May we all find humor in the journey and remember that every awkward conversation is just another step towards becoming slightly less lost in translation.
We are terribly handicapped in the USA because we do not learn languages other than English as a matter of course in our schools. Like many Americans, I had some years of Spanish in high school, indifferently taught, and a semester of French in college. Then I was plunged into Italian when I spent a year studying art in Italy, at a time when few Italians learned English. I did not succeed in learning their language until I placed myself beyond the reach of English, however. As you are discovering, that is difficult to do nowadays! I am guessing that your daughter is progressing more quickly because she is daily immersed in Portuguese at school.
In my experiences in Italy, I have noticed that ex-pat groups tend to cluster together, speaking their native language. In this way they never truly integrate or become fluent in the language of the country they have migrated to. If the work that you do, and your home life, do not require you to express yourself in Portuguese routinely, the challenge becomes that much greater. Do you try to speak Portuguese at home, as unnatural as it may feel? Brava for the effort you are making!
As a classical singer, I've studied Italian, French, and German, and have sung in those tongues as well as Spanish, Catalan, Czech, Polish, Russian, Swedish, Japanese, Hebrew, Latin, and my native English. Accurate pronunciation is extremely important (it's part of the music), and with languages not studied, this involves painstaking work analyzing the text using IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet). (Nerdily, I've always found this work fascinating.) Familiarity with other Romance languages helps me in Portuguese, but damn, I do find it so challenging to understand what is said to me (at least in Italy, I (mostly) recognized what words were being spoken, but in PT, beyond the basics, I often have no idea. I feel your pain (and guilt)! To be (a colonizer) or not to be, that is the question....
As a retired Languages teacher, this is something all too familiar.
Firstly, most Portuguese don't learn English so, in order to communicate with many workers here, plus all our elderly Portuguese workers, speaking their language is vital.
Having said that, Portuguese is the fourth foreign language that I have learnt and, as this was late in life, my level is adequate, but nowhere near fluent, even after eight years.
Secondly, the satisfaction and enjoyment of being able to converse with local people cannot be underestimated. We have never used anyone to help us with official appointments and we do our own taxes. My husband has bought into this too.
LaDonna, let me say, firstly, that Portuguese is a terribly difficult language to learn. I went to Portugal three times (loved Porto) and said to myself at some point - I could never learn this language. Luckily, many people I encountered spoke English or French perfectly, so that certainly facilitated my interactions with them. I'll be moving to Spain next year (from France) and am currently learning that language...much easier than Portuguese and with many similarities to French. I know that I'll eventually get a grasp on the Spanish language. In the meantime, I use Google Translator on my phone to interact with the people. Very helpful.
Just a note: Portuguese and Spanish (89% cognates) are much more similar than French and Spanish (75% cognates). [Just for fun - French and English cognates: 27%] Just check it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexical_similarity). The big problem to me (besides specific phonemes - sounds) with French is writing it, the one with Spanish is having many regional accents, and for Portuguese it is the huge gap between what you hear and what you read.
Roger had a similar experience in 1986 while we were traveling in Germany. He tried to use his college German and was told to speak English. We are in a sometimes unknowing way clueless about our arrogance .
First, a great thank you to LaDonna for having the opportunity to read your writing. It's all so beautiful, the writing, the ideas, the metaphors, all! Second, I'm sharing two thoughts. 1. Being portuguese (and speaking Portuguese - of course -, and English, and French; being B1 in German, Italian and Spanish, and loving languages in general) I do resent a bit when people say quite "naturally", and without thinking: "Portuguese is a terribly difficult language to learn", just because I compare. I can't help it. I compare things to enable reflection on them. Even from the English point of view, I can't help thinking about Polish, Hungarian, Finnish, Danish, etc., not even considering oriental languages, that have completely different grammatical structures and concepts. Language is an essential component of culture. The foreigner's "bubble thing" is real. And the turning tables image is very, very real. Only through the force of numbers a foreigner gets help in your (foreign) language - see Spanish in the USA, or English in the Algarve, South of France, etc. Imagine me moving to Greece, without basic English or French. Imagine me moving to the UK... This leads me to the "immersion thing", but in the (real, common) rough way: You're not an expat with financial means. You can not choose fancy neighborhoods to live in. You struggle to move to point A to point B. You HAVE to work (and you can not choose the job you've learned, but just accept the jobs you get - that don't imply talking to natives), you have to swim in the muddy, thick waters of bureaucracy, and when you're ill, you're unable to explain where it hurts, what you really feel! At first you can not communicate, you're alone. But you made a life choice and you need to make it work. So you learn the language the hard way. BUT you learn. You'll never be fluent like a native, you'll never lose your accent. You'll just get more aware that the more you know the more you find there is to learn. Sooooo... I must be sensible with my statements and my comparisons, reflection and empathy are a must. 2. The speakers of a foreign language who speak your own have a huge advantage. They "know" two systems, and they can navigate in different grammars and concepts. In the end, foreigners that struggle/want to learn are admired and respected, even when they fail, even when they make mistakes. Those who despise the learning part (there are such people, unfortunately, that gave up or just decided that they don't have/need to) lose a great learning/cultural opportunity that enriches us as people.
Thanks so much for your comment, Marta. I really appreciate your perspective.
Once again, thanks for your insightful writing. I chuckled at your opening line, I have practiced the exact phrase myself and used it less than 10 times while traveling in Portugal mainly for the same reasons. My best Portuguese is much worse than most Portuguese peoples English so I default back to English. I am moving in May and have feverishly been trying to learn enough to have a basic conversation. I took Latin in highschool which isn’t a spoken language so I am learning my first new language now as a retired person. But here is the rub. I grew up in the 60’s where being foreign was not cool. My father is from Czechoslovakia and spoke 4 languages fluently, my mother is first generation with her father from Greece and she spoke 3 languages. So in my home I could have learned my choice of 7 languages but learned none of them. I am absolutely not going to default to English and I will keep apologizing before I butcher my next sentence in Portuguese but it is so important to me.
Great writing as usual! You aptly described a regular topic of conversation in our house ;-) Julie is fluent (and she is a polyglot who speaks several languages), I on the other hand struggle daily (because I am a monoglot) and have been in a PLA course that I love since Sept. and still struggle with studying every day ;-( It's SO hard when you brain isn't wired that way! But the look on my neighbors and friends faces when I try my best to converse in Portuguese makes it worthwhile!!!
I have asked our mailman (who speaks English) to speak to me in Portuguese and several other folks I see often. They are great about it! Everyone wants to help, I love that ;-) Stay with it, slow and steady wins the race for us monoglots, right?
Embarking on the journey of learning Portuguese has been like trying to salsa dance with two left feet—awkward, a bit embarrassing, but utterly exhilarating. Every misstep in pronunciation feels like a tiny rebellion against my monolingual comfort zone. It's like my tongue is on an adventure, exploring uncharted territories, only to occasionally stumble over a linguistic root. And let's not forget the moments of unexpected kindness when locals switch to English, offering a linguistic lifeline as I'm about to drown in my own sentence structure. It's a humbling reminder that while I'm here trying to untangle my 'obrigados' from my 'por favors,' I'm also navigating the vast ocean of cultural exchange—one garbled word at a time. Here's to the beauty of linguistic mishaps and the universal patience of everyone who's ever had to decipher my earnest, yet baffling, attempts at Portuguese. May we all find humor in the journey and remember that every awkward conversation is just another step towards becoming slightly less lost in translation.
We are terribly handicapped in the USA because we do not learn languages other than English as a matter of course in our schools. Like many Americans, I had some years of Spanish in high school, indifferently taught, and a semester of French in college. Then I was plunged into Italian when I spent a year studying art in Italy, at a time when few Italians learned English. I did not succeed in learning their language until I placed myself beyond the reach of English, however. As you are discovering, that is difficult to do nowadays! I am guessing that your daughter is progressing more quickly because she is daily immersed in Portuguese at school.
In my experiences in Italy, I have noticed that ex-pat groups tend to cluster together, speaking their native language. In this way they never truly integrate or become fluent in the language of the country they have migrated to. If the work that you do, and your home life, do not require you to express yourself in Portuguese routinely, the challenge becomes that much greater. Do you try to speak Portuguese at home, as unnatural as it may feel? Brava for the effort you are making!
Thank you for another beautifully written essay!
As a classical singer, I've studied Italian, French, and German, and have sung in those tongues as well as Spanish, Catalan, Czech, Polish, Russian, Swedish, Japanese, Hebrew, Latin, and my native English. Accurate pronunciation is extremely important (it's part of the music), and with languages not studied, this involves painstaking work analyzing the text using IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet). (Nerdily, I've always found this work fascinating.) Familiarity with other Romance languages helps me in Portuguese, but damn, I do find it so challenging to understand what is said to me (at least in Italy, I (mostly) recognized what words were being spoken, but in PT, beyond the basics, I often have no idea. I feel your pain (and guilt)! To be (a colonizer) or not to be, that is the question....
Absolutely love this! Thank you for sharing!
As a retired Languages teacher, this is something all too familiar.
Firstly, most Portuguese don't learn English so, in order to communicate with many workers here, plus all our elderly Portuguese workers, speaking their language is vital.
Having said that, Portuguese is the fourth foreign language that I have learnt and, as this was late in life, my level is adequate, but nowhere near fluent, even after eight years.
Secondly, the satisfaction and enjoyment of being able to converse with local people cannot be underestimated. We have never used anyone to help us with official appointments and we do our own taxes. My husband has bought into this too.
LaDonna, let me say, firstly, that Portuguese is a terribly difficult language to learn. I went to Portugal three times (loved Porto) and said to myself at some point - I could never learn this language. Luckily, many people I encountered spoke English or French perfectly, so that certainly facilitated my interactions with them. I'll be moving to Spain next year (from France) and am currently learning that language...much easier than Portuguese and with many similarities to French. I know that I'll eventually get a grasp on the Spanish language. In the meantime, I use Google Translator on my phone to interact with the people. Very helpful.
Just a note: Portuguese and Spanish (89% cognates) are much more similar than French and Spanish (75% cognates). [Just for fun - French and English cognates: 27%] Just check it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexical_similarity). The big problem to me (besides specific phonemes - sounds) with French is writing it, the one with Spanish is having many regional accents, and for Portuguese it is the huge gap between what you hear and what you read.
Roger had a similar experience in 1986 while we were traveling in Germany. He tried to use his college German and was told to speak English. We are in a sometimes unknowing way clueless about our arrogance .